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Sir, you are avoiding my point blunt question, what do you do with 300 years of early Christianity using the "Greek Translation" of Zechariah? In that Greek translation is says, "And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and compassion: and they shall look upon Me, because they have mocked, and they shall make lamentation for him, as for a beloved, and they shall grieve intensely, as for a firstborn." Read it, Sir.

You are dodging the question, I gave my response, you are doing flips in apologetics. The Christians translated this in Zechariah a very long time ago, when Greek was the most popular language of the Empire. Yet, the Jewish messiah is not even referred to in this text. 













וְהִבִּיטוּ = and looketh they
אֵלַי = unto Me
אֵת = (not translated - it is a pointer for the following word)
אֲשֶׁר = (whom, which, wherewith, because, when, soon, whilst, as if, as when,
                 that, until, much, whosoever, whereas, wherein, whose)
דָּקָרוּ = they mocked/sting (with words)/wounded
(note: In Jeremiah 4:9 it says, "מְדֻקָּרִים" Footnote: The term מְדֻקָּרִים (mÿduqqarim), Pual participle masculine plural from דָּקַר (daqar, “to pierce”), is used figuratively. The verb דָּקַר (daqar, “to pierce”) usually refers to a fatal wound inflicted by a sword or spear (Num 25:8; Judg 9:54; 1 Sam 31:4; 1 Chr 10:4; Isa 13:15; and other places). Here, it describes people dying from hunger. This is an example of hypocatastasis: an implied comparison between warriors being fatally pierced by sword and spear and the piercing pangs of hunger and starvation. Alternatively “those who hemorrhage (זוּב [zuv, “flow, gush”]) [are better off] than those pierced by lack of food” in parallel to the structure of the first line.)

וְסָפְדוּ = likewise/also/and -- they waileth [or,
          lamenteth, mourneth]
עָלָיו = regarding/over/above/upon --- him/his/[it]
כְּמִסְפֵּד = as/like {the} wailing/lamenting
עַל = over/on/regarding/on behalf of
הַיָּחִיד = the - only (son)/darling
וְהָמֵר = and (the) bitterness
עָלָיו = regarding/over/above/upon/ ... /him/his/[it]
כְּהָמֵר = as (the) bitterness
עַֽל = regarding
הַבְּכֹֽור = the firstborn

My rendering is this:
"..and they looketh to Me concerning the wounded - and they mourneth over them as the lamenting over an only child, the bitterness of them like the bitterness of (losing) a firstborn."

Keep in mind that the whole context of this chapter is dealing with war, not the  messiah, but war.

This is the wicked problem with Christians, they love to distort and cut and paste Jewish passages in order to promote their agenda. You cannot pull something out of an irrelevant story and say, "See, it is talking about Jesus." No it isn't!!!

Here is what the Karaites say...
"...and they shall lament (v’saf’du וְסָפְדוּ) to Me about those who are slain, [like in] wailing (kamis’ped כְּמִסְפֵּד) over them as over a favorite son and showing bitter grief as over a first-born."

Here is how Chabad renders it...
"And I will pour out upon the house of David and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplications. And they shall look to me because of those who have been thrust through [with swords], and they shall mourn over it as one mourns over an only son and shall be in bitterness, therefore, as one is embittered over a firstborn son."

THEREFORE, Zechariah 12 has nothing to do with our Jewish moshaich

Thank you.

------------------------------------------------

Daniel Gregg:
"He does not actually accept the LXX but it is worth pointing out that John 19:37 does not quote the LXX..."

---------------------------------------------------------

Maregaal:
That was exactly my point Gregg!!! The Greek version of Zechariah was translated by Christians, yet, the "Gospel of John" does not even follow this rendering, proving that "John" deliberately distorts the passage. The Greek "Septuagint" is more accurate according to the Hebrew, that was my point.

Thank you

---------------------------------------------------------

BY: Maregaal

Dear Sarah,

Thank you for asking your questions. I would be more than glad to answer all your questions. First off, however, let me address the things about what Daniel said and what he teaches:

He is afraid of different views, because I’m showing that the messiah of the Jewish bible is not HaShem / YHWH, nor some aspect of Him. The messiah of Judaism is not divine, nor eternal, he is a part of creation. Daniel might be able to persuade those that are not educated in Judaism, in Hebrew and the Mosaic law, but he cannot persuade very well the people of the book. Agenda is far different than truth. Apologetics does not equal truth.

Those that believe that the Jewish messiah is our God do not know the fundamentals of the religion of the prophets. That faith is Judaism. Judaism, to us, is not a man-made religion, it was given by HaShem to Moses and the other prophets. Judaism touches all aspects of life, every single thing we do.

I love everyone here, and I tell you with all honesty, there are over 1 billion Christians in the world claiming to stem out from Judaism, yet, the majority of their beliefs are unbiblical (according to the first bible, the only bible in the days of Jesus.) That bible is now called the Tanach.

Daniel is afraid to deny Jesus is God, because John 1:1 says that he is. Yet, the reality is John 1:1-1:18 was added by a totally different author than he who wrote after this point, because the style is completely different and it has unique wording unto itself. Scholars call this part “the Introduction.”

In fact, here is the website he promotes:
http://www.torahtimes.org/NewTranslation/43_john/jh1.html
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word with the Almighty, and the Word was Almighty.  2 He was in the beginning with the Almighty.  3 All things came into being by him, and apart from him nothing came into being that has come into being."

and here is their agenda driven Trinitarian version of Zechariah 12:10
“And I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spĩrit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look to me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over him, like the bitter weeping over a first-born.”
This is false.

Please ask any Hebrew reading Jew to translate this to get the confirmation, even though I have already shown you more than one Jewish translation.

Likewise, Daniel says:
…but we know that the Septuagint was radically modified by the Rabbinic Jew Aquila around AD 140 to rid it of texts that could be applied to Yeshua, so he is most likely responsible for the mistranslation.“

I find it amazing that he expresses doubt, when he says, “…he is most likely…
Again, the Christians put Zechariah into Greek, this is their (Christians’) translation. The “Jewish Septuagint” is only five books: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. The Christian Septuagint is all of the so-called “Old Testament.”

Here is just one of many links to my facts, if someone doesn’t believe me…

From: http://www.the-truth-ministries.us/Bible_Versions/
“Greek - The oldest Bible translation in the world was made in Alexandria, Egypt, where the Old Testament was translated from Hebrew into Greek for the benefit of the Greek-speaking Jews of that city. A Jewish community had existed in Alexandria almost from its foundation by ALEXANDER the Great in 331 BC In two or three generations this community had forgotten its native Palestinian language. These Jews realized they needed the Hebrew Scriptures rendered into the only language they knew-Greek. The first section of the Hebrew Bible to be translated into Greek was the PENTATEUCH, or the first five books of the Old Testament, some time before 200 BC Other parts were translated during the next century.
This version is commonly called the SEPTUAGINT, from septuaginta, the Latin word for 70 (LXX). This name was selected because of a tradition that the Pentateuch was translated into Greek by about 70 elders of Israel who were brought to Alexandria especially for this purpose.
Only a few fragments of this version survive from the period before Christ. Most copies of the Greek Old Testament belong to the Christian era and were made by Christians.

There are many other links one can find on the internet regarding these facts.

Can I say a quote from the church father named Origen, who lived somewhere around 230 CE? He said that many New Testament manuscripts were being corrupted by scribes, here is what he said, “The differences among the manuscripts have become great, either through the negligence of some copyists or through the perverse audacity of others; they either neglect to check over what they have transcribed, or, in the process of checking, they make additions or deletions as they please.
Source:
page 52 ,“Misquoting Jesus. The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why” by Bart D. Ehrman

Moving on…
Goats? I have goats, so I know a little bit about them, that is why I talk about them more than sheep.
I hope that is what you meant.

Women?
“…also i noticed that he does not acknowledge women.” Actually women play a big part in Mefachadim. In Judaism, only the Temple was dedicated to the male Levites, other than this we do not mind who, or what gender, teaches or speaks. The website may not talk about women, but that is pure coincidence, nothing calculated.

Have a good night for now.

I will post more on the website when I can find the time.

The Bible called:
The Messianic Israel Standard Bible
at:
http://www.torahtimes.org/NewTranslation/bibleframe.html

is a total sham. A butchering of the Jewish scriptures by the agenda driven theology of Trinitarians. WOW, this is a horrible translation!

Thank you,
Maregaal



וְהִבִּיטוּ אֵלַי אֵת אֲשֶׁר־דָּקָרוּ וְסָפְדוּ עָלָיו כְּמִסְפֵּד עַל־הַיָּחִיד וְהָמֵר עָלָיו כְּהָמֵר עַֽל־הַבְּכֹֽור׃
Below is a debate I am having with a person (Daniel Gregg) on Facebook concerning Zechariah 12:10 and how the New Testament distorts this passage in John 19:37 at this LINK
Though this translation of John 1:1 is near accurate, it is no way literal. Therefore, it is not intellectually honest to the true NEW TESTAMENT GREEK, the King James Version is better.

I, being a Jew, can translate it better than this fraudulent rendition, so here it goes....

Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦνλόγος καὶ λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν καὶ θεὸς ἦνλόγος

In/At beginning/start/origin was/were the/that Logos/Word/Speech and the Logos/Word/Speech/Saying was toward/next [to] The Theos/God and Theos/God was that Logos/Saying/Word

Literal:
In [the] beginning was the Logos/Word and the Word/Logos was with The God and God was that Logos/Word

Theos does not equal "Almighty," because in Greek culture they had more than one theos/god. Theos is a generic term, NOT anything that represents "the mightiest."

I, being a Jew, see the New Testament very blasphemous by calling Jesus the God of Israel. Nonetheless, putting my feelings aside, I am more intellectually honest with their writings than they are!!!
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